You Dreamt of a Condo with a View, But Then I Showed You a Suburb School…

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Just dropping this here as a conversation starter.

Transcript:

You dreamt of a condo with a view, but then I showed you a suburb school and the view of your daughter’s future made a house look really cool. Let a Remax agent guide you.

Remax, dream with your eyes open.

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  • joe big dawg

    suburb and segregation are the same idea, alienating yourself from others unlike you, weather race, economics, education or political the suburb was and Idea to get away from others you don’t want to live around. City or urban environment is diverse, strong, efficient, and resilient! City people do not run from problems we deal with them, we fix them, we fight them. Also, the suburb is always shifting, ferguson is urban not although it is not in “the city” the suburbs are like st charles, edwardsville, lake st. louis, places 25 miles or more outside the city limits but areas that were suburbs 30 years ago have changed, they are getting diverse and have not kept that segregation quality of what ever type that you find with a true suburb.

    • Rita Earley

      How about alienating yourself from crime??? Who the heck needs it! How judgemental you are…

      • matimal

        Suburban defensiveness is a sure sign of changing times.

  • A.J.

    Pretty much the entire message of Steve Shultis of http://rationalurbanism.com/ is that the urban schools get a bad wrap. The worst part being, schools are the first reason people seem to leave an area but the last thing to come back.

    I feel the same about K-12 education as I do about state spending on infrastructure, healthcare, and social services. Good intentioned Liberal policies that ended up stealing value from Urban areas and redistributing it to the suburban/rural areas wherein it did not build wealth.

    I, for one, welcome the tax race to the bottom of Missouri and it’s crippling of the rural/suburban areas. And I’m a registered Democrat!

  • Jack Bowe

    I feel like this is similar the Budweiser Superbowl Ad making fun of craft beer. If it is shown as competition, it does give legitimacy to the other option. Maybe it’s a sign of progress?

    Either way, it does shine some light on what I think is the biggest obstacle to promoting urbanism in STL– creating a better education community.

  • Daron

    Nobody has a problem with suburb being used as an adjective?

    • Alex Ihnen

      I have a problem, more an interest, in the use of “suburb” and “suburban” in general.

  • Sean McElligott

    The car, oil, road building, restate industries all have huge sums of money invested in the suburbs and are not going to get over it with out a fight. Was this commercial made before or after the events of Ferguson? I have a fear with gas prices going down and with the events in Ferguson and Baltimore may cause people to move back or regain interest in the suburbs.

    • STLEnginerd

      Ferguson is a suburb.

      • matimal

        Politically, yes, but economically not exactly.

        • Alex Ihnen

          How do you define “suburb”?

          • matimal

            By their economic function…suburbs exist to allow people to take advantage of a metro area while shielding it from the costs and what economists call negative ‘externalities’ of the metro’s economy. Ferguson doesn’t do that. Ferguson us in some ways the opposite of that. Ferguson actually works to ‘contain’ the negative externalities of the metro INSIDE its borders.

          • STLEnginerd

            If you are talking about historically why they became so ubiquitous, then maybe you have a point. They exist because real or perceived negative aspect of the city drove people to establish a community where they could live while working via commute in the economic center of the region. But that is not inherent to their existence. There are poor suburbs and rich suburbs but that is a different metric.

          • matimal

            It WAS inherent to their creation. This is why history matters. There are no suburbs as poor as north St. Louis city. When there are, you will see powerful forces pushing people from north city to them. Fear of this was at the heart of the ferguson debacle.

          • STLEnginerd

            So hilariously a lot of St. Louis suburbs exist because in 1876 some people decided to permanently separate from the county. If they hadn’t several of the “urban” suburbs would have been absorbed by the city. Suburbs would still exist (Florrissant for instance was established well before St. Louis and St. Charles was established around the same time), but probably wouldn’t have really started forming in significant numbers until the 1950s. Any suburb established before then should probably be put in another category. The modern suburb was created AFTER the proliferation of the automobile.

            Off the top of my head,
            Suburbs of comparable poverty to North City…
            East Saint Louis IL
            Compton CA
            Camden NJ
            Gary IN

          • matimal

            I don’t think it’s hilarious, but it is ironic. The larger point is that political divisions exist for a reason and once created take on a live of their own.

          • matimal

            Everything is ‘historical.’ This isn’t all happening now. It’s been happening for generations.

          • Justin Striebel

            I see what you’re getting at here, and that’s an issue with much of St. Louis County in general.

            I’d suggest Ferguson is in fact a suburb, but it fails at it’s role of being a suburb. Others in St. Louis county fail at that role as well even though they succeed financially.

            But I’m with Alex. It’s very interesting and I don’t know what my opinion is exactly.

            There are suburbs with urban design. And urban areas with suburban design. Does that mean neither term is actually appropriate? Not sure.

          • matimal

            I don’t think about “design” or density when I think of suburbs, I think about function, meaning why one place has a separate legal existence from areas surrounding it. The later forms the former in American cities, with a few notable exceptions….

          • Tysalpha

            True, but Ferguson was *incorporated* as a suburb (to shield it from the negative externalities of St. Louis). Of course decades later now those externalities have come home to roost — and with no-one else to spread both the positive and negative externalities among.

  • Chris

    Um, pretty sure your own bias is clouding your view point here. The ad show two people with out kids in an urban high rise. Then it shows the future with the child and the family living in the suburbs. This same process happens all over the country. Living in the city with young kids can be a huge PIA plus unless you can afford private schools your aren’t left with many options. Don’t blame young families for the blight of inner cores. Blame the lack of civic progress for not giving these people a real choice.

    • STLEnginerd

      Honestly the fact that there is resistance to moving out is a big step forward. For decades the cities image has been dominated by crime statistics. Now people see it as the place to live while you’re young single etc. Even if they do eventually move to the suburbs, if they do have a good impression of the city, they will see it as the place to invest and start businesses in a decade or two when they have establish the ability financially. Huge progress.

      • Alex Ihnen

        Somewhere here there’s a need for a discussion about what urban and suburban is. I live in a 1920’s “suburb” which is much more urban (older, denser, closer to transit) than many parts of the city…and if STL City’s political boundary would move a couple miles, would my street suddenly be more urban? Increasingly one can also find a condo with a view outside the urban core.

        • STLEnginerd

          I started to write a paragraph, but realistically the more you write about it the more you can pick it apart with examples that don’t quite fit.

          Florrissant is older than St. Louis, St. Charles is nearly as old. Clayton is in many ways an independent economic center while not as important as St. Louis to the region it has an outsized role relative to its population and geographic size.

          So I prefer to take a page from Justice Stewart and go with “I know it when I see it”.

        • moe

          I would point out that there are many suburbs within the City….Holly Hills, St. Louis Hill, Tower Grove South, McRee, and so on and so on. When Shaw built his Garden, when Forest Park was set aside…they were considered “escapes” from City life. What made them suburbs then but urban core now? What will the next 100 years hold for the suburbs of today? After all, if St. Charles continues, it’ll build it’s own urban core equipped with skyscrapers and condos.

        • Luftmentsch

          The ad is just using “suburb” as code for single-family homes and good schools. It’s drawing on a stereotype in order to provoke the knee-jerk reaction against whatever is dense, challenging, potentially “troubled.”

    • John R

      Just a friendly reminder that there are lots of options these days with more by the day, whether its SLPS, charter or parochial/private. City living isn’t for all families, but if you want to stay it actually is pretty easy… to say there is no real choice is just wrong.

      • Rita Earley

        I have a teacher friend working in city charter school, and he said it is pretty dismal…. I simply don’t find truth in finding good schools there.

        • Alex Ihnen

          If you haven’t, be sure to check out http://stlcityschools.org. It was developed and is maintained by city residents with children in city schools. There are good, and improving options, but it does take work to find the right fit. As far as other school options around St. Louis, Clayton is clearly expensive, but Kirkwood and Webster Groves is less so, and further west has options too. St. Louis isn’t a simple market, but it’s not terribly different than other big metro areas either.

          • Rita Earley

            Thank you for your helpful reply, Alex. Daughter works downtown, but son-in-law works in Edwardsville. Makes traveling west less appealing. I’ll check out the website and thanks again.

          • Alex Ihnen

            I don’t know nearly as much about the east metro as I should. I do hear good things about Edwardsville, Belleville, etc.

  • matimal

    The suburban industrial complex is actually having to sell itself. It can’t automatically count on having all social, political, and economic forces being on its side. I take that as a sign of progress.

  • Michael B

    If I don’t look at this cynically, I see that Remax realizes that many young people want to live in urban, walkable areas, but that their main customers (sellers) are people who live in the suburbs. They’re trying to sway the opinions of Millennials and convince them that the city isn’t that great, because Remax doesn’t have that many properties in the city. That’s if I’m trying to look at this from a viewpoint where Remax isn’t being subtly racist and ignorant to what some people actually want out of a neighborhood (walkability, proximity to transportation options, restaurants, and parks, etc). I’m not saying people don’t want good schools (they do), but it’s kind of scummy to suggest that Remax actually knows what you want better than you do.

    • A.J.

      I feel like there’s a war of attrition right now between older sellers who are demanding bubble inflated prices and younger buyers who can’t afford those prices. In that kind of market, it’s wise for the buyers to just wait out the sellers and make them take the bath rather than being the “greater fool.”

    • moe

      It’s not scummy at all. It’s what marketing is all about. Convincing you that my product, no matter what it is, is not only better than the competitions, but that I know better than you, so just trust me. And well AJ makes a point about waiting the sellers out…..sooner or later, those new buyers will also be sellers. And who wants to buy a property that will lose money? We buy houses (and condos) as investments. After all, home ownership is the American Dream.

      • Alex Ihnen

        I’m not sure “not scummy at all” and “what marketing is all about” are mutually exclusive. In fact, I mostly think that marketing, from kids toys to real estate, is generally scummy.