Loitering & violence in the Delmar Loop

[RobbyD]

^I have no insights into practices in Forest Park...

I come from a perspective that the world is not binary and attmepts to make sense of it using such narrow lenses of black/white or rich/poor or male/female are inadequate...

I can tell you I have seen numerous family reunions in Forest Park, many of which were black families...

I can tell you I have seen numerous church gatherings in Forest Park, some of which were majority black congregations...

I can tell you I have seen the police break up groups of young people in Forest Park, many of which were black folks...

I can tell you the cops used to break large gatherings of young people in closed grocery store parking lots when I was in high school, most of which were white...

I understand our country has Klu Klux Klan groups who preach hate...I understand our country has Black Panther groups who put bounties on people's heads...There is hate and racism to be found...But to ultimately put everyone in either the Klan camp or Panther camp is not only not true, it is extremely harmful...

In the end skin tone does not really define a man or woman...No matter what one believes, one's choices and actions really define who one is, right? The minute any of us are black first, white first, hispanic first and not a human first created by God with inalienable rights (as the Declaration of Independce says) our civil society is diminshed...

[ricke002]

In the end skin tone does not really define a man or woman...No matter what one believes, one's choices and actions really define who one is, right? The minute any of us are black first, white first, hispanic first and not a human first created by God with inalienable rights (as the Declaration of Independce says) our civil society is diminshed...

What if we were created from evolution, though?

[RobbyD]

^Your question makes no sense.

Evolution would be defined as a process ocurring through time subject to the impersonal forces of nature...God would be defined as an intelligent entity which exists outside of time and in most traditions is knowable...

To say the sun came up because the sun came up...or even because the earth rotates only says what has happened, not who or what may have put the sun in the sky...

I suppose you could say that the universe just showed up on day out of thin air...Just like the Christians say...

[RobbyD]

IOW you can say a painting exists because of an artist or you can say a painting exists because of pigments, apparent brush strokes, saturation into the canvans, and gravity which holds it all together...

Two different answers with the same result...A painting...And two answers with different insights into the meaining of the painting...

[ricke002]

^Your question makes no sense.

Evolution would be defined as a process ocurring through time subject to the impersonal forces of nature...God would be defined as an intelligent entity which exists outside of time and in most traditions is knowable...

To say the sun came up because the sun came up...or even because the earth rotates only says what has happened, not who or what may have put the sun in the sky...

I suppose you could say that the universe just showed up on day out of thin air...Just like the Christians say...

You're right. Woman came from the rib of man. Makes much more sense.


And yes. The universe did show up one day. That's what the whole "Big Bang" thing is talking about. Not just a sitcom.

[RobbyD]

^My last comment on this =D

The Bible is not a scientific text book or scientific expose on the creation of the Universe...It does not propose itself to be such...Credible authorities do not propose it to be such...It is ultimately a collection of moral writings meant to give guidance in an often cold and difficult world...

Science does not propose itself to be a moral guide or an authority on realities that might exist outside of its expertise...Credible authorities do not propose it to be such...Science is ultimately a collection of observations and assumptions meant to understand teh created world and how things work...Not how things should be, but how they are and likely were...

The whole Big Bang thing suggests the created world exploded on the scene out of nowhere...Christians seem to ultimately suggest the same thing, with the addition of ascribing a creator and designer to something that clear seems created and designed...

[ricke002]

^My last comment on this =D

The Bible is not a scientific text book or scientific expose on the creation of the Universe...It does not propose itself to be such...Credible authorities do not propose it to be such...It is ultimately a collection of moral writings meant to give guidance in an often cold and difficult world...

Science does not propose itself to be a moral guide or an authority on realities that might exist outside of its expertise...Credible authorities do not propose it to be such...Science is ultimately a collection of observations and assumptions meant to understand teh created world and how things work...Not how things should be, but how they are and likely were...

The whole Big Bang thing suggests the created world exploded on the scene out of nowhere...Christians seem to ultimately suggest the same thing, with the addition of ascribing a creator and designer to something that clear seems created and designed...

My whole thing was that you added "created by God" into your answer. It was a solid, all-inclusive response until then. Kinda fits the theme of this thread, actually.

[urban_dilettante]

^since we're on the subject, a quick thought. (i will not utter another word about it.) why is it more plausible to say that God is "infinite" in some sense (has no beginning or end, no creator) than it is to say that the universe is infinite in some sense (has always existed in one form or another, exploded out of nothingness, etc). i just find it interesting when people scoff at the idea that the universe has no creator, but think it's perfectly reasonable that God has existed for all time, or lives outside of time, or something or other.

[warwickland]

Very not "old school urban stl.com" discussion.

Signs and wonders.

[doug]

Steven Hawking has a really good series on this stuff and it's available on Netflix.

[pat]

I think if you want to continue discussing God vs the Universe you should start a different thread.

Even discussing race vs evolution is a bit more in depth than this thread originally intended, imo.

[quincunx]

Last night the barkeep at the Horseshoe House said business was down after the shooting, albeit a qualitative assessment. Please get over there. I don't want that corner to be empty again!

[framer]

Blueberry Hill seemed a bit slow last night at dinnertime. Of course, it was just a Tuesday night.